Scans outlined in Illustrator with Pen tool. Looks like Kurt trimmed the bottom of edge Univox Control Plate. On my first version of Cobain mustang, I beveled around the whole control plate. Will ask customer what his preference is to see if he wants it cut jagged or smooth.
Also looks like it was only secured with 2 screws and duct tape. Can probably a screw for stability under duct tape by toggle switch. Notice the bulge in duct tape. I’ll superimpose the 75 mustang underneath.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/gibson-4-ply-pickguard-material.2263052/
None of luthier shops had it, they had 3 ply and 5 ply but not 4 ply. They did have pearloid top but needed pure white. Sweetfinger had some custom made and was lucky enough that he kept his extra pieces and sell them. Huge shout out to him!
Other option was using the original univox, only issue was it was rare and on top of that we needed a left handed version, not even sure if it existed. So lucky on this one.
Will start working in illustrator to work up that intersection with vinyl pickguard. So apparently there is a blue label “Thomas Road Baptist Church” vinyl that also exists. Zooming in I still can’t be definitive if it is the black label or blue. The sweatshirt he is wearing is blue and similar to color, but still can’t be sure.
Customer wanted to blue one on it, and can cut a black also for him. So he will have both versions. I also ordered a sealed mint condition record on discogs, not sure what color it is but may save it for the version I’m doing which may be a clean version, non reliced version.
Dismantled the Phase III and mustang. Phase III uses B500k mini pots, ordered some on amazon. Will trace pickguard tomorrow and design that intersection of Univox Control plate and Mustang Vinyl. Worried about stability of record. Cobain had the the vinyl record overlap it but not going to do that, I’m gonna try to fit that switch in there. Customer will pull toggle switch from a Phase IV to use, I may also wire it up, it will add capacitance but probably not noticeable, but might as well add the accuracy. The Univox Phase III is amazing, going try and find one to grab. My pickups will be designed with same specs. My rig sounds amazing with it, without even tweaking anything. Talking to Ken Willmott to get the integrator to get better resonant peak readings. Super nice guy. Pretty certain I want to put these in my guitars. I will definitely test the sound of Phase pickup when in mustang. The squier Mustang I made soundn’t ok but not as magical as the univox. Maybe related to eastwood copy pickup or the fact that pickup location was different.
New Luthier Project work for customer. After my modified Cobain #1 mustang sold, local customer wanted one. This customer going all the way and sourced accurate parts for the job. Sourced out and original hi flier pickup and 75 Fender Mocha Mustang. Also A 70’s Univox in excellent condition. Awesome customer will let me dismantle his univox guitar to get the specs of pickups. Inclined to model this pickups on my guitars. After playing the Univox I was smashed to the floor. The sound seamed cleaner than a paf. The low mid really sounds clean. Instant Bleach era sound even without a Boss DS-1 in front. Paired with a japenese DS-1 and a Fender tube amp would nail that album sound perfectly.
The specs of the Hi flier pickup are similar to a PAF. Researching sold listings are accurate at about with range between 7 and 8k. This one measures 7.32k The latter most likely a neck pickup. I’ll know for sure when I open her up. The inductance is about 4H for the bridge. Similar specs to a Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates NECK at 7.27k / 4.151H pickup or DiMarzio PAF Master BRIDGE at 7.39k / 4.5H Could this be a neck pickup?
Pole spacing on both the neck and bridge are at 50mm. Also to be certain I ordered a DE-5000 LCR meter https://www.ebay.com/itm/264862619678 to measure accurate capacitance and will test the resonant peak with a Velleman PCSGU250 usb Oscilloscope and Function Generator. https://www.ebay.com/itm/121926552639
Guides to for measurements here.
https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7775/pickups-resonant-peak-usb-oscilliscope
https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7723/measuring-electrical-properties-guitar-pickups
For payment user is going to pay me with a Classic Vibe Mustang, which I’m debating whether or not to modify that also since I’m working on this Cobain one. I do need hardware parts for my first builds. If I can sell for 800 dollars, that should cover my parts or might be able to upgrade the tuners to locking staggered. Leaning towards this way since already in this Cobain mindset. I can relic the original parts on classic vibe.
Finished the dust collection bucket for planer and bandsaw. Cut a hole in the gamma seal lid and CNC cut the the lid from 1/8 birch plywood and bought some powertec dust ports and sealed with silicon.
Wen Bandsaw cut width of Body blank to 13 inches planed to ~1.51 inches. Still a lot of wood chips flying from the planer, had to brush off chips, no difference when connected to harbor freight dust collector. Saves me a ton of work rather than hand planing, which would have taken me a least an hour and a lot of sweat. Everything done in under 20 minutes. I do have to brush off the excess chips on wood though between cuts. I tried 1/16 inch at first and lowered to 1/32, half turn for finishing. Came out pretty good with minor snipe. Overall happy, not sure long how the blades will last or if I need to upgrade to helical cutter. Ran both the planer and HF dust collector without tripping the breaker.
Need to order some 4 inch blast gates for HF dust collector. Also ordering a a better Pwncnc dust hose clamp, the velcro attached one wasn’t secure enough. Also will create an arm extension to support the hose better, extra tension might be effecting the gantry.
Upgraded the dust boot on my Shapeoko to a 4 inch Pwncnc dust boot v7. Really easy to put together. Will get better airflow with 4 inch. Added 2HP Harbor Freight dust collector. Also thought about making a cyclone filter, but I read that it cuts down on the airflow dramatically. I added the bucket under the collection bag for easy cleanup. May add more supports for the hose. I also lined the HP dust collector with silicone and duct tape. I ordered another elbow and 4 inch coupler. May add a 4 inch reducer to 2.5 inch for my bandsaw, but not sure if is needed, the wen bandsaw doesn’t seem designed well for dust collection. Also making dust collection bucket for Dewalt planer with a modified gamma seal lid and powertec dust mounts.
Really impressed with the dust boot, it is pricey but they are the best I can find, with easy to order replaceable parts.
The wynn filter is super pricey with expensive shipping. Was kinda of let down because the weak protective shipping that bent my filter. Definitely should have gone with the donaldson filter. Kind of screwed, I’ll eat return shipping for errors on their part. Definitely not going to buy from them again.
Edit, talked to Wynn Environmental about my issues. Sent them pictures of the bent lid and they totally hooked it up and sent me a new one. So I have 2 now, first one does leak, so it’s a good backup now. Really pleased with their customer support. Not many companies offer great customer support.
Dewalt 935x planer, works like a beast, very clean surface hard wood birdseye maple, 95 percent smooth, some minor tool marks. Leveled the tops to same depth removed the hump at the end. The material removal gauge is totally inaccurate. Cuts way too much. Better to use the Depth Adjustment scale on far right. Also better to adjust by turning wheel:
1 full turn = 1/16 inch or 0.0625″
1/2 turn= 1/32″ or .03125″
1/4 turn= 1/64″ or .015625″
Dewalt planer 735 Digital planer mod below. Looks super accurate, may modify mine.
Also close to getting the Harbor Freight 70 Gallon 2 HP High Flow High Capacity Dust Collector. I have to rearrange my work area though. Going to move the desk and CNC machine towards window and planer on North wall with the dust collection there.
Bit the bullet and bought the Dewalt 735x thickness planer.
The top 3 candidates were the Dewalt 734, Dewalt 735X and WEN PL1326. Wanted at least 3 blades and all these have the highest feedrates.
Dewalt 734,
Home depot has a sale at $399 https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-12-1-2-in-Portable-Thickness-Planer-with-Three-Knife-Cutter-Head-with-24-in-Tote-with-Organizer-DW734DWST24075/203355217 It’s only 12.5″ inches though, wanted at least a 13″ It does have 3 blades but ranked worse in finish quality. High feed rate also.
WEN PL1326
https://wenproducts.com/collections/planers-jointers/products/wen-pl1326-15-amp-13-inch-spiral-benchtop-thickness-planer
13″ spiral cutter, really wanted this, cheapest spiral cutter. Only issue was build quality, not exactly pro quality. And it was sold out. Fakespot spot said they had a lot of deceptive reviews though. Had one decent video on Youtube but had nylon parts that didn’t look so pro. It has features with lock on it and is 13″ vs the 734. The spiral looks really clean. I’d probably fall back to this if the dewalt 735x doesn’t work out. Replacement blades cheap, just not sure of durability.
Dewalt 735x
https://www.ebay.com/itm/401547510503
Best build quality, durable, 13″cut with 3 blades. The best finish quality. The fan exhaust has a blower fan in it not requiring an external one. Can also mod with a Shelix Cutterhead, https://www.ebay.com/itm/115269080561. Which is expensive but cleaner finish, that does draws more power. But may save money long run with blade changes. I may go this route eventually when my extra 3 blades die out. Myers video definitely says it’s a benefit for heavy users.
Also was recommended to use 20amp circuit. I checked by electric box, it has does use 20amp although outlet jacks are normal, not sure what thickness wire it uses. Apparently this box is outdated. Should replace it.
Edit- So the surfacing bits aren’t meant to surface hardwoods, it may work for a few but I’d have to get the higher end bits with removeable blades. What I should get is an electric planar. I also have an ancient 16 inch planar that will work.
Surfaced my neck to about .92 inches. Got a ton of rubbing going on. But it is super smooth. Changed by chipload from .019 to .025 by increasing feed from 100 to 134, Same lines, just spread out more, should try 50 percent next time and adjust chipload to .02 or more. Also lot of rubbing on corners. So maybe try different toolpaths that don’t have that cornering at the end going over same cut spot causing excessive heat. Will try different tooling operation in rhinocam or may extend boundary, not sure if that will work on neck though because of long length.
Also thickness was a little thicker towards the lip sticking out past wasteboard, probably due to the chatter of nothing underneath to support, it wasn’t by that much, cutting that part off anyway. Definitely can’t have this rubbing burn on body surface. Don’t think it was the tool either, seems pretty sharp still.
Also maybe make another wasteboard for the neck. May try .5 wasteboard. Think my inserts will fit. Forgot to order M6 screws though. Will order those.
Also noticed that my gcode was fucked up a little bit. The step cut of .02 was changed to .03 also noticed my cuts on first cut where not straight at one section. See if I could reproduce. Maybe some rounding tolerance shit going on. Maybe I fucked up the gcode post processor when editing? Revert to default, see if causes same issue.
Surfacing test on pine wood was successful. Used a smaller 1 inch surfacing bit. I also straightened up my gantry a few months ago with dial indicator recommended by Winston. I also adjusted the stepper motor steps, which I didn’t test. But overall really happy, there are absolutely no lines at all on smooooth baby’s ass surface. Used 25 percent stepover and used rhinocam to for 2.5D facing operation. Offset the top surface by 1 inch with .01 cut depth. only 1 pass, 18250rpm (dial3 on carbide router). Had to set the datum on machine manually, couldn’t use the edge detection tools because of the surfacing bit.
This will be helpful especially for the warped hard maple neck blanks I purchased. I think I have like 20 of them. I’ll surface those next.
Bad news though for the frets slots in Rhinocam. The Shapeoko machine doesn’t support R modifier commands when using the G2/G3 arc commands. Unfortunately lining up the I, K modifiers was a failure, they just wouldn’t line up correctly. I even contacted Rhinocam, said exactly the same thing. Not sure if I can accurately model with I and K modifiers, it kept getting offset crooked, even got mismatched arcs errors in Camotics. So all is not lost, I can still generate the segmented linear code from rhinocam.
Other good news, I had to edit the Rhinocam post processor, the main issue was it being locked to 10000 rpm. I edited the min/max and also tried to mimic the syntax from carbide create.
I uploaded below just rename txt file to .spm and paste into C:\ProgramData\MecSoft Corporation\RhinoCAM 2018 for Rhino 6.0\Posts\Mill
The good news is the post processor can be changed from g90 absolute to g91 incremental. I could have done this in Gcodewizard but really happy it is a cool function in rhinocam, was trying find the command somewhere, haven’t ran a test cut just compared the coordinates from both files and it looks like they changed to relative, could be wrong though. I’ll run tests. This would allow me to make doublesided projects easier. Only having to setup from 1 axis and able to use tape to workhold pieces to allow better cuts along profile. Overall, really happy with Rhinocam, right now I am using an older not legit version but will purchase the full version from them once I start getting rolling. The new version has gcode editors built in a few new features but I still should support them but it’s 2750 a year or 5000 for pro version. It works so great with Rhinoceros.
According to this book Electric Guitar and Bass Design by Leonardo Lospennato, my measurements are pretty close. “If heel is too thin, it will affect sustain and weaken the joint; too thick, and the guitar be too heavy and beefy”
Book Recommendations:
Heel thickness no less than 7/8″ (0.875″) mines at .954″ but thinner closer to top of heel because it is contoured a little bit
Guitar top to fretboard HAS to be close to 3/8″(0.375″) mines at 0.44627 – 0.055 = 0.39127″
Neck Pocket depth ~ 5/8″ (0.625″) mines at .546
https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Guitar-Bass-Design-complete/dp/3000296425
Ditching Meshcam. It’s like night and day. Rhinocam is better than meshcam in almost everyway. First off, boundaries for toolpaths are super precise. You can generate them from Rhino objects, edges, surfaces, create offsets that are accurate. Meshcam has option to only draw boundaries by hand and set option to not cut the top, not ideal at all. Overall I feel like I’ll waste less time sanding.
Only real issue I have with Rhinocam is creating the fret slots, it will not create optimized arcs but instead small linear curves that really make dirty gcode that doesn’t cut as cleanly as optimized. The arc fitting does work for straight fretted guitars where the arc stays within a straight XZ plane but will not work for the angled fret slots. Kind of a bummer but I can live with creating the gcode manually just for fan frets. I will see how the rhinocam fret slots cut out, or I’ll try pocketing them, we will see.
Cutting the body is super fun and easy. Can really customize the cut you want. The amount of different toolpaths you can generate is amazing, can customize your ramping easily and test simulate each part, unlike meshcam where you don’t really have much flexibility to test things out. So far no crashes either. Some parts do take awhile to generate like the 3D offset profiling I am using for fillet edges. Cuts exactly how I want to but generates a ton of code.
I love simulator also, really smooth and it keep your already ran toolpaths and can keep adding more toolpaths and checking them. Think I need to optimize the finishing passes a bit, seems to generate a lot of code. I just got the half inch ballmill that Highline Guitars Chris recommended.
Documentation is pretty decent, just wish they would describe why things are needed, instead of what they do. They also have a lot of videos online, some are hit and miss, but mostly useful. Like redundant stuff instead of advanced details of some advanced stuff. So I’m learning all the different ways to create optimized toolpaths. Really fun stuff.
Think I found another solution other that editing gcode. Still dirty like the easel pro gcode. Averages about 150 gcode lines per fret, compared to on 25 line for the arc commands. But this saves me so much time and easily flexible. Generated curved segments, exports to carbide post processor. I also ran a test on the main pocket. Looked amazing clean. Can simulate within rhino. Create boundaries within rhino. Meshcam you have to really eyeball the boundaries. Trying to see if I can set up relative points. I think i’ll use the gcode from here, saves me time fooling with meshcam. Although i love meshcam it’s a bit limited and doesn’t do fret slots. Also tried Gwizard, works nicely when converting to relative points, just got to make sure you add the g91 relative coordinates command in gcode.
“BoundingBox” command around neck and fretboard
Set Cplane to top left corner of this bounding box, ViewSet Cplane3 points
Quick add points by selecting all the curves and “CrvStart” and “CrvEnd” command
“SelPt” command to select points
“RemapCPlane” will remap the pts to the world view so point lineup to datum of cplane
“Export” command to export points as a text file, can select different options
“EvaluatePt” command to test the old and new coordinates from a similar point from each set. World view should match the cplane plane view of old point.
Still trying to find out away to export the radius automatically into a text or csv file. Export object properties doesn’t work. Maybe scripting. Does show radius in PropertiesDetails panel.
https://discourse.mcneel.com/t/export-points-coordinates-to-csv-from-rhino/39783
2.893830336972175 19.72605406283105 -0.1503872798900644
2.908831725861067 18.3814721183866 -0.1512404272465318
2.922998392527735 17.11202628505326 -0.1520590795748484
2.936330336972177 15.91369434060882 -0.1528410104749654
2.948970614749955 14.78258322949771 -0.1535926874546832
2.960776170305512 13.71466517394216 -0.1543037933092737
2.972026170305509 12.70674989616438 -0.1549895855104204
2.98272061474996 11.75522072949771 -0.1556488866727349
2.992719225861066 10.85702628505327 -0.1562717934115168
3.002163670305515 10.0091096183866 -0.1568659481088264
3.011053948083287 9.208692951719932 -0.1574303642251207
3.019524781416624 8.453276285053267 -0.157972774889403
3.027441448083287 7.740220729497715 -0.1584837801025848
3.034942836972181 7.067026285053263 -0.1589716170111135
3.042024781416623 6.431609618386606 -0.1594354243289183
3.048831725861072 5.83188878505327 -0.1598841950359408
3.055080336972181 5.265776285053267 -0.1602987218285007
3.061052559194403 4.731331840608824 -0.1606972092082555
3.066748392527734 4.227027673942157 -0.1610793457766369
3.072026170305513 3.750916562831044 -0.1614352569492227
3.077026170305516 3.301470729497712 -0.1617740528767977
3.081748392527738 2.877304062831048 -0.1620954714477866
1.086887281416617 22.34438739616437 -0.1506701444928687
1.070913670305512 20.84924850727549 -0.1515840885431201
1.055915059194392 19.43841656283104 -0.152456836558275
1.041748392527732 18.10688739616438 -0.1532941532751435
1.028274781416624 16.85036100727549 -0.1541022070254554
1.015637281416623 15.66452767394216 -0.1548704849215907
1.003831725861067 14.5453596183866 -0.1555972542875805
0.9925817258610685 13.48924989616438 -0.1562979748738753
0.9818872814166211 12.49244295171993 -0.1569714690298083
0.9718858925277338 11.5516096183866 -0.1576078245257113
0.9624414480832888 10.66369295171993 -0.1582145179197765
0.9535539480832913 9.825776285053262 -0.1587905574875448
0.945080336972179 9.034942951719934 -0.1593443974924211
0.9371636703055115 8.288415173942152 -0.1598659163956624
0.9296650591944005 7.5839707294977 -0.1603635314397307
0.9225803369721763 6.918970729497712 -0.1608369306317483
0.9157761703055129 6.291472118386594 -0.1612945563056227
0.9095247814166241 5.699109618386597 -0.1617175718898762
0.9035525591944005 5.140081840608826 -0.1621239940677723
0.8979983925277359 4.612444340608825 -0.1625039812892011
0.8925817258610689 4.114388785053263 -0.1628764316363656
0.8875817258610716 3.64438739616438 -0.1632218711719977
0.8828595036388487 3.200776285053269 -0.1635495646548035
2.87785950363884 21.1503596183866 -0.1494945306880764
Trying to dissect the gcode for the Easel Pro plunge. I do notice the curved plunge in Camotics, it’s very slight, not sure if this would prevent tips from breaking. I noted how dirty the easel pro generated code was. A single curved fret that I generated from the G2/G3 arc commands is only 24 lines. The single fret non curved straight line from Easel Pro generated 100-110 lines. Not efficient at all. The straight plunge code generated 1 line of a single plunge command and the 40 degree ramp plunge generated 2 lines per stepdown, which is clean. Something I could do just drawing curved line from the fret ends. I’m gonna try cutting without the plunge for now and revisit if If I start breaking endmills.
G20
G90
G1 Z0.15000 F9.0
G0 X0.46630 Y18.32419
G1 Z0.00000 F15.0
G1 X0.47800 Y18.31698 Z-0.00500 F15.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 Z-0.01000 F15.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 F20.0
G1 X2.27613 Y17.20905 Z-0.01500 F15.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 Z-0.02000 F15.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 F20.0
G1 X0.47800 Y18.31698 Z-0.02500 F15.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 Z-0.03000 F15.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 F20.0
G1 X2.27613 Y17.20905 Z-0.03500 F15.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 Z-0.04000 F15.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 F20.0
G1 X0.47800 Y18.31698 Z-0.04500 F15.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 Z-0.05000 F15.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 F20.0
G1 X2.27613 Y17.20905 Z-0.05500 F15.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 Z-0.06000 F15.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 F20.0
G1 X0.47800 Y18.31698 Z-0.06500 F15.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 Z-0.07000 F15.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 F20.0
G1 X2.27613 Y17.20905 Z-0.07500 F15.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 Z-0.08000 F15.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 F20.0
G1 X0.47800 Y18.31698 Z-0.08500 F15.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 Z-0.09000 F15.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 F20.0
G1 X2.27613 Y17.20905 Z-0.09500 F15.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 Z-0.10000 F15.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 F20.0
G1 X0.47800 Y18.31698 Z-0.10500 F15.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 Z-0.11000 F15.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 F20.0
G1 X2.27613 Y17.20905 Z-0.11500 F15.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 Z-0.12000 F15.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 F20.0
G1 X0.47215 Y18.32058 Z-0.12250 F15.0
G1 X0.46630 Y18.32419 Z-0.12500 F15.0
G1 X0.77537 Y18.13378 F20.0
G1 X1.08139 Y17.94517 F20.0
G1 X1.38754 Y17.75656 F20.0
G1 X1.69370 Y17.56796 F20.0
G1 X1.99986 Y17.37921 F20.0
G1 X2.28783 Y17.20185 F20.0
G20
G90
G0 Z0.15000
G0 X0.00000 Y0.00000
G4 P0.1
G20
G90
G1 Z0.15000 F9.0
G0 … Read the rest
Success!
Just tested modifying gcode manually to make radiused slots. Meshcam was an failure, even with pocketing it. G18 changes to XZ plane then plunge to first point and use g2/g3 command for end point. Can set the radius in the G2/G3. Will work for fan frets also but involves analyzing the radius of each fret. Just select radiused fret, may have to simplify curve first, and use “Radius” command. Getting the exact start points also a bit of work. Maybe, adding points to end sections of fret, then use “What” command to grab the coordinates. Also setting a cplane to your origin point to input into gcode. Unfortunately Easel Pro doesn’t support G2 ARC commands. Tested in Camotics and ran smoothly. Hopefully my machine supports it. Easel pro so nice though wish it had that support.
%
(FILENAME: Fret Slotting Toolpath G18 XZ Arcs.nc)
(STOCK/BLOCK, 100.000, 500.000, 6.350, 50.000, 250.000, 6.350)
(TOOL/MILL,0.6000,3.00000,38.000,0.0)
G00 X0.0000 Y0.0000 Z2.0000 (fast travel to z height of first point)
(Zero Fret)
G00 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z2.0000 (START POINT fast travel to xyz of first point )
G01 F120.0 Z-2.1667 (linear movement plunge rate down to z point)
G18 F600 (select XZ plane sets feedrate for cuts)
G03 X26.5000 Y250.9687 Z-2.1667 R586.8924 (END POINT Counter clockwise arc from XYZ, with Radius of fret)
G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y250.9687 Z-2.4167 (linear movement plunge rate down to next XYZ)
G18 F600 (select XZ plane sets feedrate for cuts)
G02 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.4167 R586.8924 (Clockwise arc from XYZ, with Radius of fret)
G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.6667 (linear movement plunge rate down to next XYZ)
(Rinse and repeat lowering z in incrementally stepdown)
G18 F600
G03 X26.5000 Y250.9687 Z-2.6667 R586.8924
G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y250.9687 Z-2.9167
G18 F600
G02 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.9167 R586.8924
G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.1667
G18 F600
G03 X26.5000 Y250.9687 Z-3.1667 R586.8924
G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y250.9687 Z-3.4167
G18 F600
G02 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.4167 R586.8924
G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.6667
G18 F600
G03 X26.5000 Y250.9687 Z-3.6667 R586.8924
G00 Z2.0000
(END)
(OF PROGRAM)
Trying to dissect his gcode. Can use different way to generate the arc curve with either the I and K offsets, or possibly use the R to add the fretboard radius. Since I’m doing fanfret the radius will always change for each fret, Luckily in Rhino3d there is a “Radius” command to analyze the radius of the curve. Good thing I simplified my fret curves to 2 degrees while maintaining the overall perpendicular fretboard radius of 16″. Still not sure if this will work for fanfret, because the arc generated follows the XZ plane. Each end of fanfret slot is not on the same XZ plane. Maybe adjusting that center point may work, j.
%
(FILENAME: Fret Slotting Toolpath G18 XZ Arcs.nc)
(STOCK/BLOCK, 100.000, 500.000, 6.350, 50.000, 250.000, 6.350)
(TOOL/MILL,0.6000,3.00000,38.000,0.0)
G00 X0.0000 Y0.0000 Z2.0000 (fast travel to z height of first point)
(Zero Fret)
G00 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z2.0000 (START POINT fast travel to xyz of first point )
G01 F120.0 Z-2.1667 (linear movement plunge rate down to z point)
G18 F600 (select XZ plane sets feedrate for cuts)
G03 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.1667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-181.9833 (END POINT Counter clockwise arc from XYZ, with offset)
G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.4167 (linear movement plunge rate down to next XYZ)
G18 F600 (select XZ plane sets feedrate for cuts)
G02 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.4167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-181.7333 (Clockwise arc from XYZ, with offset)
G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.6667 (linear movement plunge rate down to next XYZ)
(Rinse and repeat)
G18 F600
G03 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.6667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-181.4833
G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.9167
G18 F600
G02 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.9167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-181.2333
G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.1667
G18 F600
G03 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.1667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-180.9833
G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.4167
G18 F600
G02 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.4167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-180.7333
G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.6667
G18 F600
G03 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.6667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-180.4833
G00 Z2.0000
Limitations of Meshcam, don’t allow cut along a line. Not sure if it’ll work with fanfrets, gonna have to dig deeper on this one. He uploaded his code also, so I can see it’ll work for on multiscale. Ran it in camotics also. G18 changes the plane to along XZ. It has an arc in the cut, and cuts straight no weird pocketing moves that would enlarge the slot. Maybe combine this with the ramping from easel pro, might be a lot, but i’ll try. Multiple people had issues doing this in meshcam. Not sure if making a pocket that small will cut cleanly.
Info on commands
http://www.manufacturinget.org/2011/12/cnc-g-code-g02-and-g03/
https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/G002-G003.html
https://cnctips.wordpress.com/2010/06/26/nc-programming-arc-centers/
Doug’s gcode file and notes
https://www.stepcraft-systems.com/en/forum/milling/5103-cutting-0-6-mm-slots-in-a-guitar-fretboard-with-g18-g02-g03-arc-commands#52169
“I have started a new post on this topic rather than append it to my guitar build thread because I feel it will be of wider interest. Last night I successfully managed to cut 1.5 mm deep, 0.6 mm wide pure arc slots for the frets in a guitar fretboard I am making using the G18 (arc in XZ plane) command in conjunction with the G02 and G03 CW & CCW arc commands.
I wrote the GCode for this myself. The YouTube video below (filmed with my iPhone, hand held) illustrates the process. I used a 0.6 mm diameter, Kyocera solid carbide two flute end mill cutting in 0.25 mm depths per pass. The system parameters were extremely conservative to avoid breaking the fragile end mill. Spindle speed 10,000 rpm, XY feed rate 600 mm/min, Z plunge rate 120 mm/min but all Z movements were done outside the line of the stock. This is a test/validation cut on spruce tonewood. The final cuts will be done on European oak.” -Doug
% (FILENAME: Fret Slotting Toolpath G18 XZ Arcs.nc) (STOCK/BLOCK, 100.000, 500.000, 6.350, 50.000, 250.000, 6.350) (TOOL/MILL,0.6000,3.00000,38.000,0.0) G00 X0.0000 Y0.0000 Z2.0000 (Zero Fret) G00 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z2.0000 G01 F120.0 Z-2.1667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.1667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-181.9833 G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.4167 G18 F600 G02 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.4167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-181.7333 G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.6667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.6667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-181.4833 G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.9167 G18 F600 G02 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-2.9167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-181.2333 G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.1667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.1667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-180.9833 G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.4167 G18 F600 G02 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.4167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-180.7333 G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.6667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y230.9687 Z-3.6667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-180.4833 G00 Z2.0000 (Fret 1) G00 X-26.5000 Y196.7547 Z2.0000 G01 F120.0 Z-2.1667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-2.1667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-181.9833 G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-2.4167 G18 F600 G02 X-26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-2.4167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-181.7333 G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-2.6667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-2.6667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-181.4833 G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-2.9167 G18 F600 G02 X-26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-2.9167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-181.2333 G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-3.1667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-3.1667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-180.9833 G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-3.4167 G18 F600 G02 X-26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-3.4167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-180.7333 G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-3.6667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y196.7547 Z-3.6667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-180.4833 G00 Z2.0000 (Fret 2) G00 X-26.5000 Y164.4607 Z2.0000 G01 F120.0 Z-2.1667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-2.1667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-181.9833 G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-2.4167 G18 F600 G02 X-26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-2.4167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-181.7333 G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-2.6667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-2.6667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-181.4833 G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-2.9167 G18 F600 G02 X-26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-2.9167 I-26.5000 J0.000 K-181.2333 G01 F120.0 X-26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-3.1667 G18 F600 G03 X26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-3.1667 I26.5000 J0.000 K-180.9833 G01 F120.0 X26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-3.4167 G18 F600 G02 X-26.5000 Y164.4607 Z-3.4167 I-26.5000… Read the rest
Redid fretboard and frets for 16″ radius, forgot I don’t have a fret clamp for 16.66″ lol. I could hammer them in, but would rather clamp them in and make them perfect. Less fret levelling later if it is close to perfect.
Talked highline guitars about radiusing fretslots. Brought up the question about sanding fretboard then slotting the radiused frets. He said it was way too much for his workflow. I totally understand. His method a bit different than the hammer bass method. He separates all the parts.
Which brings up the other issue of fretslots. A delicate matter in so many ways. The cutters for the slots are so thin and easily break. Much trial and error, and a rigid machine needed. Also the way it is programmed.
The easel pro method incorporates 2D slots and cut them out like a cutout. Can be done this way in Carbide Create also. Carbide Create does not do ramping like Easel pro. It has more options for the ramping angle. I feel it is important because of how fragile the cutters are. I could import more toolpaths into easel but, doesn’t create the shapeoko gcode with the m6 toolchanges. Carbide Motion can import it, but I might opening another can of worms.
Chris also mentioned that meshcam isn’t possible for fretslots. I would have to create 3d pockets unlike just the 2D line in easel pro/carbide create. Of course that may create issues making the slots too wide. I will experiment to see how it cuts. I can check the results in Camotics. Also got .5 ball cutter for neck. Chris say it will cut smoother than quarter inch ones.
Also the fret slot endmills he uses
https://ebay.to/3yqHaYx (10) – #73 (.0240″) 2 FLUTE MICRO CARBIDE ENDMILLS – LONG FLUTE 1600.0240.120B1
Running at
0.024 2 flute upcut, 20 in /min, 15 in/min, Depth per pass .01in 20,000 rpm, climb cut, 20 degree ramp depth of cut .125″ (should match overall depth of tang of fret) measure fretwire, mine says .058 doc, but I’m trying radius the fret slots, he is cut it straight and gluing the frets in to fill the gap.
Meshcam tests roughing pass with .5 inch plunger cutter and bottom picture with rough and finishing with .25″ ballmill. Decent results, can also camotics to see the cutter in action. That small stepover really helps smooth it out. Hopefully that .5″ ball cutter I ordered works good for fretboard so I’m not stressing the same cutters. Tomorrow I should remodel the strings recheck neck pocket depth and then try and model some fret slots to test in meshcam to see if how the toolpaths generated toolpaths flow at. Be a lifesaver not having to glue in the frets.
Ordered some screws for inserts I already have, wasteboard is about .75 inches, 1.5 inches body thickness, and 1.85-2 inches for uncut body. Make two cuts for bevel and length. Wait for these to get in to measure the countersink holes. Also make sure it deep enough to clear the first surfacing cut. The inserts should help repeatability. The hammer video just uses these screws first, then cuts the hole for the dowels in the wood body. Removes body and then drill holes for the dowels in the wasteboard.
Major body changes. Added fillet edges to main body cavity. Reduced overall thickness to 1.5 inches from 1.7″. Ordered cnc bit for 1.5 depth of cut. Redid arm contour with G2 curves, much smoother and slightly reduced the angle. enlarged the belly cut and raised the heel contour slightly. Weight down dramatically from 4 to about 3.4 lbs now.
Ordered some bits. Larger depth of cut (1.5″) for contours and acrylic O flute. Must alter body thickness to 1.5 inches, may be good for weight relief or balance out with fillet main body cavity.
Now we get to talk about one of the things that a lot of beginners don’t know.
It’s another skill that you will need to develop and if you already have, in my opinion you’re off to a good start.
There are a lot of tools out there that can do this for you at least in part. I would encourage you to learn this skill it’s an intricate part of the setup process and if you get good at it your accuracy can be as good as automated systems don’t get me wrong, I do use edge detection tools just not for this particular job, I only work in relative coordinate systems in g-code terms g91 in relative coordinates.
I set the origin in fusion 360 and mirror that location on my machine by indexing from the part and the bed.
The other option is absolute coordinates or g90. In this system you have to place the part on the bed relative to the origin settings you’ve made. In the cam setup, absolute coordinates add a degree of difficulty to two-sided milling and for this reason I avoid it when i flip apart using relative coordinates. I only have to get the part on one axis with the machine using either an edge or a center line. In absolute coordinates I would have to match two accesses to accomplish the same task.
Developing my cam strategies, repeatability and accuracy is main goal.
I may have center droop on my machine. I may have to remove legs and add some wood underneath to stabilize it better. Even with the HDZ, if my board isn’t stable, all cuts will be fuckt.
Work holding/ Jigs
I ordered a bunch of dowels, I have some metal ones 10mm x 40mm. My goal is accuracy and repeatability. Will make a neck jig, the video below has a jig for the fretboard, but not the headstock. I can make one for the headstock also to be safe. Last thing I want to do is waste wood.
Neck Pocket
Neck pocket needs to be perfect. When working support for cnc company, some users had neck pocket issues. Cutting one side of the machine way not be as accurate on another part. Maybe try cutting on same axis and in same region I’m cutting the body pocket from may help. Need to run tests in both axes. The shapeoko is belt driven in x and y axes. I’ve already adjusted the CNC steps per axis on machine. Test Test Test.
OUTLINE- more details added later
BODY– hard ash 20x14x1.85″
Work holding- wood metal dowels, screws, may develop a way to use threaded inserts for repeatability
1. Top Body cavity 1.25 doc
2 . Fillet bottom of this cavity with ball nose
3. Neck pocket
4. Top fillet edge, ball nose
5. Flip, have 10mm metal dowels and 6/8/10 x 40mm dowels
6. Back pocket 1.2 doc
7. Back fillet edge ball nose
8. Cutout, may need new router bit for this, plunge bit may not work
9. Bridge post holes, PG holes, ordered some.
NECK/FRETBOARD maple neck 1x4x30 Richlite 20″ x 2.75″ x 0.3125″ (508 x 70 x 8mm)
1. Truss rod cavity
2. Holes for neck holding
3. Glue on fretboard
4. Cut holes for inlay
5. Top neck headstock profile
6. Fret slots before or after radiusing?
7. Fretboard radius
8. Flip, need fretboard jig
9. Neck profile, back of headstock
10. Cut out
PICKGUARD/BACKPLATE, acrylic, should buy acrylic bit
1. Pickguard cutouts
2. PG screws
3. Custom texturing model?
4. Outline cut
Saving xyz, can just set x and y off fast jog points, some other commands I can use, issue might proximity switches not being precise every time. Something I need to test multiple times. Belt stretch can happen also, Hopefully not between parts. Also something I need to test.
https://community.carbide3d.com/t/store-recall-x-y-zero-points/22859
Using the “Angle” command I can easily find the break angles to the tuners. Set up a zero fret to make sure angles were accurate. Wraps around the tuner post can affect this angle. According to the gearpage info anything above 10 degrees with tremolo may cause more binding at the nut. I feel like the extra tension from the scale length and heavier gauged EAD strings will create enough tension. From my measurements, there is steep change from the G and D strings which coincide with the heavier string gauges on those strings. Definitely some trial and error involved. The high E string seems to be slightly above the threshold. Will try what I have now as my base. May need to tweak the design a bit when adding the tremolo. 3+3 headstock may comeback.
Break angle strings found in rhino with “Angle” command
E 175.291 = 4.709 degrees
A 174.446 = 5.554
D 174.268 = 5.732 degrees
G 172.930 = 7.07 degrees
B- 172.389 = 7.611 degrees
E – 169.168 = 10.832 degrees
From Terry McInturff from the gearpage
“Perhaps it is best to discuss this matter with a general review of some basic facts regarding this particular topic.
A. A steeper headstock angle will impart slightly increased string tension as compared to a shallower headstock angle. Increased string tension suggests a slightly different rise-time and overtone series. These are big topics for another time.
B. A shallower headstock angle is a prerequisite for any guitar that sports a non-locking vibrato bridge. This is because the steeper headstock pitch forces more string “down-pressure” at the point at which the angle changes…ie, the nut. Any headstock angle that is steeper than 10 degrees (and 10 degrees is pushing the limits!) will cause the strings to “saw to-and-fro” as the bar is used, and the strings will quickly start to bind in the nut slots; they will not return to pitch.
C. A steeper headstock angle usually makes for a weaker area on the neck at the point at which the angle changes…again, at the nut area. Many of these necks will be prone to breakage at this point. Proper neck design can minimise this;it’s worth mentioning that some of these workarounds can have notable effects upon the guitar’s tone if taken to extremes, ie, multiple laminations of the headstock ala Vega White Lady, Alembic, and etc.
The above are some facts that can provide a basis for conversation, I hope!”
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/calling-out-to-builders-headstock-angles.432040/
Not sure how I screwed up the pole heights, were way too high
Also lined them better for the heavy bass/light treble Dean Markley strings. The thickness of string can alter the x position of tuners. Not really anything I can do, people use different strings gauges, not huge issue, they don’t have to be perfectly straight. Though I’ll try to them as good as possible. Also have to keep in mind the string gauge when setting x location. Also evenly spaced them and are closer then last time by about 1/4 inch. May still need a string tree for the E and A strings. 1 better than 2 I guess. Removed the block objects, ends up being a pain aligning things up, groups are better. They need to fix block instances, just a pain to move them after.
(22.5 mm) posts
(21 mm) posts
(19.5 mm) posts
Six (6) screw-in 10 mm bushings
Found some grabcad models for 5 way switch, ordered some, should come in this week to model accurately.
16mm normally closed killswitch added. These normally closed switches are rare. Iv’e only found a couple quality ones that aren’t plastic. Found some 19mm ones available locally. https://alpinetech.com/alpinetech-19mm-normally-closed-momentary-stainless-steel-push-button-switch-1nc/ Also fixed the headstock alignment with tuners and added fillet at top by logo.
Fine tuned a lot. Aligned the strings to radius of fretboard and rotated radius to string gauge should keep it zero tilt, but need to check numbers again. Lined up tuners, need to tweak headshape design. Added switchcraft dpdt, either be diode switch or blower switch. Ordered some 5 way switches, still need to model killswitch.
Redid body outline, cleaned up points and made all curves g2 or g1. Matched the horn curves perfectly, copied curve, flipped and the rotated -22 degrees. Redid pickguard to align with body, used offset command, which makes a really dirty curves, still need to clean up extra points, things look and line up better. May redp the pocket, thinking about curving the bottom like an acoustic, I’d have to use another bit and run an extra finishing path. Looks better overall, hard to notice it, but minor differences make a huge deal.
Major changes to the neck. Thinned out volute a little bit up to nut. Instead of gradually sloping, it’s pretty aggressive now. I do like the fender necks this one may be easier play. Nut section has been redone, added a g2 curve instead of the typical hard slope, hopefully countering the previous change. Also dramatically changed the neck profile the max heights are still 14 at 1st and 14.5 at heel. The profile is a bit thinner, still asymmetrical also, hopefully this counters the wider 45.5 mm nut compared to default 43 that everyone use. I feel the extra mm difference gives fretting a little more room. Definitely a wide neck, anything above that was too wide for me. I love wide classical guitars but this is happy medium, wider but not much wider.
The new workflow was a failure. I just couldn’t get it work 100 percent. I got everything smooth close to volute but that connection was still not water tight and bumpy, I tried the Sculpt and Match but the Matchsrf command kept giving me bumps. Tried so many different methods to blend but in the end I regressed back to network surface. Match surface was not an option I did have to use JoinEdge twice. Even tried refit trim, but that failed, only works on isocurve cuts which isn’t the trim I need. There are 2 noticeable seams in the zebra but it is away from the fretting hand.
I did generate my cross sections with Edgesrf with 6 degree curves. the g2 nut curves helped the network a lot. Does make my model denser and kills any match srf commands. The 2 joinedge commands probably wont be seen in finished cut, if so can probably sand it easy. Gotta do the heel again. Also might need to redo the curve by the first tuner and blend that top of headstock curve, cnc will not cut that angle. can split and surface blend it. Also going to redo the body outlines and do over. I used interp curve but will try the sculpt method with changing degree on my curves to lower surface points.
New workflow is great! It was difficult at first breaking old habits. Less is more. I kept breaking up my neck profiles into 2 curves instead of 1. Each profile curve is single span with degree of 6. Also made them all G2, before I had them at G1. Way less surface points is the way to go. Match Crv works great now, before I was struggling with gaps and naked edges. Looks way better now. EdgeSrf is amazingly efficient. Splitting the curves made it easier to snap because the center point was in the middle. Now I have to use points and relocate gumball to make guide curves, not that difficult just a new process. Really amazing especially when I join them, it is water tight, no gaps. I have flexibility. This makes life easier if I want to go in and change the neck profile. I don’t have to surface the whole thing, just middle section. Before it was a struggle, match surface kept leaving gaps. Now everything easily editable, flexible and smooth as a babies ass. Graduated to Sculpt and Match.
“That’s a hard pass dog”. Watching this video made me realize that some of surfacing I was doing was causing me issues. Network Srf and sweep surfacing generated too many points. This issue caused too many issues when trying to match curve and also creates bumps and seamlines showing up. Bandaid the fix using the dirty joinedge command that corrupts surfaces. Solution, Use “EdgeSrf” and “Loft” commands instead. I can use the same curve structure that I found, just need different surfacing tools. This will help me keep my surfaces smoother and water tight. Way cleaner using EdgeSrf” below. Curves in Surfaces out!
Further inspection I noticed small division lines on neck profile surface that needs a rebuild.
When I set up first neck profile, the match curve extended past the outline, creating this miniature hump in the zebra analysis. I noticed the profile was bulging out past outline and my top surface of neck was not on original guideline. Which is fine, I ran so many commands that it was inevitable that somethings would move. It’s bad design when you have to use the dirty “JoinEdge” command when closing naked edges.
Shouldn’t take too long, since I know exactly what to do and not experimenting on how to design it rhino. Good practice anyways. Since I moved the neck up for zero tilt, I have to relocate the original fret2find outlines. using the “What” command I can find how much I moved it off z, which was exactly .204″. Used “Setpt” command to set z of outlines again.
Also setting the nut properly. I used the “Extend” command to extend outlines. I created the two nut lines to 4mm thickness with osnap set to near. I eyeballed it last time. Should be tighter this time. I think I may choose to move that first neck profile back maybe a quarter inch to give the network surface more smoothness. Another idea might be angling the neck profile, may be trickier, prolly set cplane to 14 mm box guide. Have to be super precise with the Nut, everything follows it. Highline guitars was right, a fucked up nut, fucks everything up. More important than the neck joint or finishing.
Finally happy with the neck surfacing, Redid everything from scratch again. Try to list what I did. I feel I will forget this unless I keep practicing to make better
Four main parts to Modelling the neck
1. Heel
2. Neck profile
3. Volute section
4. Headstock
1. Heel section (dark blue curves)
Did the Highline Guitars method but instead of patching it I ran Network surface. 2 curves at base and of heel and end of neck profile and 6 guide curves, drawn carefully, tweaked curves manually. Try to keep curves straight in top view. 2 rail sweep could work also. Sometimes one works better than the other.
2. Neck profile (light blue curves)
3. Volute Section- (red curves)
4. Headstock
Just extruded from original drawing- Elliots method. Or use Guides to create thickness and the dup edges or create edges manually nothing too hard here.
Unfinished work , still needs the pickguard painted,
Redid glory box, enlarged shape for more wiggle room inside, also reduced weight to 3.8364 lbs. Arm contour enlarged, reduced fillet on top from .25 to .125, bottom reduced from .5 to about .3 inches.
Redid the bottom, cleaned up cavity to cut with .5 inch cutter. Body weighs about 4.38505lbs, should be less once I put the glory box back in. Gonna add all the other switches, strings and clean up neck a little more also. Almost done with model.
New neck looks way more stable now, 45.5 width at nut, even edge string spacing. Need to set the neck depth and add more heel contours like the ormsby. Neck profile was adjusted, more D shaped not as exaggerated like on first version.
saddle height .4715-.024= .4475 with string slot.
With a scale length of 25.5 Inches (647.7 millimeters) and the neck joining the body at the 16th fret, the bridge should be located 10.129 Inches (257.285 millimeters) from the point of the neck join.
The string 0 at the bridge is 0 Inches (0 millimeters) higher than where the neck joins the body.
Therefore, the neck angle should be set at 0 degrees for proper string action.
https://www.tundraman.com/Guitars/NeckAngle/index.php
Neck pocket
0.5461
Neck thickness at top of fret to heel .9936 –
Volute looks a lot more stronger now. Surfaced new neck, tried the xnurbs plugin, not the greatest results, kept adding humps, nothing beats adding more profile curves. Still needs some fine tuning manual surface matching, going to come back after I add the new radiused fretboard.
New redesigned neck, with string width compensation. Positioned tuners slightly closer to nut, should help a little with angle and force. No nut slut. Will angle the tuners to headstock, can’t change registration points in illustrator, have to do it in Rhino3d. Simplified the volute to match curve of asymmetric neck profile. Researched the ormsby genisis guitar, neck is super thin at 20mm at first fret, will definitely tweak, also neck heel contour is super sleek, will definitely redesign like that, only issue the bolts from stewmac are 1.5 inches. I want to keep body thick but I love how they contoured it. Neck heel is slightly offset and much thinner than guitar neck. My ash should be able to hold it. Probably won’t go to that extreme though.
Good thing im redoing the neck, widening the string spacing from 1.375 to 1.5 and enlarging overhang to .13. neck with slightly larger now.
Dean Markley 2558
.010 .013 .017 .030 .042 .052
.005 .026
1.69291 43mm
overhang .13 adjusted to .156 bass side .135 treble side
1.5+.156+.135=1.791 45.4914mm nut width
Dissapointed but neck has to be redone, Volute, looks to weak and easy to snap. Will also remove nut slot, this will allow me to fit a 22 fret version on richlite fretboard. Shouldn’t take too long. I can of know how to model now, most all the modelled hardware is reusable also.
Modelled the jescar fretwire.
Used the Sweep1 feature with the Jescar profile found online. Projected flat fret2find frets on fretboard top, had to explode original surface or it’ll project to bottom. Made a little script to quickly go through frets, probably an easier way to also select object and cap automatically. Need to model some strings and rest of electronics, screws etc. All new tools received already. Really excited!
_sweep1
_EnterEnd
_cap
http://docs.mcneel.com/rhino/5/help/en-us/information/rhinoscripting.htm
https://developer.rhino3d.com/api/rhinoscript/selection_methods/selection_methods.htm
Modelled some toneninja staggered tuners. used 2 rail sweeps for washers, boolean difference for pegs, illustrator logo. Should help me design some tweaks if need be. I tried to make the neck headstock as low as possible for lowered angle. May probably still need a string tree or two, hopefully not. Will do some jescar fretwire. Think I just need a 1 rail sweep and project radius on them.
Created a 16.66″ radius. I tried the 7.25″ radius but my fretboard was way too thin. Plus bending is easier lower action. Classical guitar are totally flat. 12 might’ve worked fine but they are so common. higher radius more stability also. .1875 Thickness of fretboard.
Creating the fretboard radius wasn’t too hard, most people just project onto an extrude, issue is it doesn’t get surfaced. Good if you quickly want to make toolpaths but not for full renders.
Rhino, created solid fretlite fretboard, created circles radius snapped to back of guitar, then cap planar extrude. Boolean split. Extruded fretboard outline upwards to split the fretboard and then split the extrude again. Maple inlays used the osnap “between” button again to line things up, less human error.
Tomorrow, Figure out neck pocket height, model a guitar nut. Figure out if I can add cnc an angled neck pocket. Not sure If I can do this easily on CNC, don’t have 4 axis cutter unfortunately, think Schecter does it so you don’t need shim. Worried about neck volute, we’ll see how stable it is. Definitely a concern. Also may have to tweak spring spacing at nut. Maybe model some strings.
Created more control curves based on asymmetrical neck profile from first fret. Basically copied neck profile curve from fret one, added center point to mid line, relocated gumball to snap to point, resized horizontally, when close, snap to edge of fretboard. The higher up the volute harder to line up. Much smoother, not perfect, going to try to match curves better to line up zebra better. May match surface or blend surface. Almost there.
